On September 8, Dave, Jeff, and Megan got together to talk about the latest Edgar Wright/Simon Pegg/Nick Frost venture, The World's End, based on some notes from Cat. (So far she hasn't given permission to publish those notes, so for now you'll have to reconstruct them for yourself based on our references to them and deductive reasoning.) This is the thrilling conclusion of that discussion.
Beware, though: absolutely no effort was made to avoid spoilers.
MR
Ok, so finally, the ending!
Dave
Loved it.
MR
I also loved it, except for the very very end where they show what Gary is doing.
What actually is he doing? Straight up murdering people? I didn't get that.
JK
Yeah, I agree with you Megan.
I loved that he had a sword though.
Dave
I loved that there wasn't a magic "win" button that made everything okay again.
MR
I agree. Like Peter and Oliver are still blanks in the end, they don't magically come back to themselves.
Dave
And the world is messed up.
JK
Did either of you wonder for a bit if Gary was simply high and was imagining the blue bloods? Then I was wondering if he had drugged all of his friends too and they were seeing it.
MR
I don't think I ever doubted that what they were seeing was real.
Dave
Yeah the movie becomes a whole lot darker if they are all mass murderers.
MR
Another side note: I looooooved the creepy lights coming out of the blanks' faces. omg so good.
JK
That made for some cool scenes.
Dave
Yep, great effect.
In the end Gary got his friends back. He gets his glory days back, but also finally gets to grow up as a person and move onto new things. And the ending also shows the duality of humanity. You have the bigoted assholes, and the compassionate folks who believe in equality.
MR
But he isn't with his friends, is he? And I'm not sure that killing bigots is ... a great route to take.
Everything about the ending worked for me except him.
Dave
Without the network, the blanks have the opportunity to become real humans. So Gary and his group are on a quest to make the world a better place.
Yeah it was a bit of a stretch.
JK
Did Gary move on to new things? Weren't those other four guys he was with the kids that they beat up at the beginning? If they were, then he was fitting himself into another group in a similar role.
Dave
No it was the young version of their crew.
Andy, Oliver, Peter, and Steve.
MR
I think it made sense that he would still not really be doing what everyone else is, in terms of survival, but to have him just wandering around killing dudes seems.. so weird.
Dave
Yeah it was a little heavy handed.
MR
It seems like a sort of wish fulfillment thing (does he tell the guidance counsellor at the beginning that he just wants to "have fun" or something? I can't remember exactly what he says), except that it's presented in a strange way.
Dave
I like that he is roaming around with his old crew, but the extreme violence aspect is a bit much.
JK
It seemed like they had to end off on some kind of explosive high note and Gary was the best one to do that. But yes, it did seem somewhat out of place.
MR
Like going in and trashing the place? I'd take that.
Even like burning it down or something, which would be more theatrical.
Dave
Well I guess they were expecting the audience to buy into the violent post apocalyptic world that we all know from so many other sources.
But it wasn't really set up in this film.
MR
He just didn't really seem like a killer to me, I think?
Dave
Yeah, it took a pretty big jump, expecting the audience to fill in the gaps.
JK
Yeah, he was there for a good time, not to slay people. Unless he considered that a good time.
Dave
Well if you look at the end as if it was set in Mad Max, then it makes more sense.
I am guessing they wanted the audience to make that sort of jump.
JK
Everyone else seemed to be trying to rebuild, but Gary was out there being wild.
Dave
It’s what Gary does.
MR
I suppose. It does have some cues to that effect, like these guys in the bar he goes into are like neoneo Nazis.
JK
He seemed to have found a purpose in life again.
Dave
Yeah, killing Nazis!
Always a good cause, haha.
JK
Woot!
MR
I dunno if you guys have seen X-Men First Class, but I 100% believe and am on board with Magneto Nazi Hunter at the beginning of that movie, but putting Gary in that position at the end of this movie didn't work.
Dave
I know Cat didn't like the musketeer moment, but I got a kick out of it.
They played with the musketeer motif throughout the movie, and I thought it worked well at the end.
You have the three survivors meeting up, very drunk, surviving the end of the world, crazy with adrenaline. I think it was natural that they would laugh about that!
JK
Did anyone catch how Gary said that the five musketeers works because if two die, you still have three? That is precisely what happened with Oliver and Peter.
MR
Apparently I missed everything musketeer-related in the movie because I have no clue what you're talking about.
I do sort of remember the five musketeers comment because of that old Albert the Fifth Musketeer cartoon.
Other ending thoughts? I think I already went into mine above.
I just really like having my expectations subverted.
I was really hoping that Oliver and Peter would come back to life (mostly because I just love Martin Freeman and can't separate actors from their roles very well), but I was so happy when they didn't.
Dave
Yeah I like that they defeated the aliens but that there was a heavy cost to pay. I like that the blanks got a chance to be real people.
MR
And I loved that their actions brought on the end of the world (as we know it).. that never happens.
Dave
I like that Sam and Steve shacked up, in a rather nice shack.
MR
I wanted to know how they scored that shack. It was super nice.
Dave
Built it, Steve was a home builder, remember. Started his own business.
MR
Yeah, I was just about to say that I remembered him in a hard hat at some point. But building a shack with your own hands is a bit different!
Dave
He would still have the knowledge.
MR
I also liked Oliver's ball head.
And the eyes on it.
JK
Reminded me a bit of Wilson from Castaway.
MR
Me too.
Any other overall thoughts on the movie? What would you rate it on the letter grade scale?
Dave
A for awesome. It had good cinematography, good effects, good acting, good story, and was overall really fun to watch.
JK
A- , I think. It didn't totally blow my mind apart like Shawshank Redemption or The Sixth Sense, but it made me think and I laughed a lot.
MR
I'll go with A-.. the weirdness at the end didn't put a good button on things for me, and like Jeff I didn't have my mind completely blown.. but while not as jam-packed with amazing as Hot Fuzz, everything in this was well done, I laughed multiple times.
I wonder if maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the whole body-snatcher genre and ended up missing some of the jokes?
Good show all around in any case!
Dave
Yep. Solid, enjoyable entertainment!
Monday, September 23, 2013
Saturday, September 21, 2013
The World's End Discussion, Part 3
On September 8, Dave, Jeff, and Megan got together to talk about the latest Edgar Wright/Simon Pegg/Nick Frost venture, The World's End, based on some notes from Cat. (So far she hasn't given permission to publish those notes, so for now you'll have to reconstruct them for yourself based on our references to them and deductive reasoning.) This is the third part of that discussion. Keep your eyes peeled for Scott's cameo appearance.
Beware, though: absolutely no effort was made to avoid spoilers.
MR
Well let's jump over to the setting
JK
Sure!
MR
Creepy small town? A+
JK
Totally. I wonder if they are any places in Saskatchewan like that.
I thought it was interesting that the town was called Newton Haven. It sounded a lot like "New Haven," an idealized conformist utopia (that turns out to be a dystopia).
MR
I wanted to say it was called "Sleepy Hollow" cuz I couldn't remember the name of it but it certainly implied peacefulness.
MR
I love how this and Hot Fuzz completely lampoon the stereotype of the small town being somewhere where things are perfect.
JK
I liked how Newton Haven had "UK's First Traffic Circle." I wonder if this was intended to be one of the 'improvements' that the blanks had introduced (I wonder if there actually are any traffic circles in England). In the end, Sam actually makes a remark that the traffic circle confused her, an indication again that the 'improvements' introduced by the blanks aren't so great, aren't so 'human.'
MR
Hahaha I forgot that traffic circle joke.
Dave
Good observation Jeff.
I did like that line!
JK
Oh yeah, and Gary tells her to go right through it! Down with conformity!
MR
I have so much trouble figuring out the actual size of towns and stuff in movies.
Because here in SK, when I think small town, I think pop. 2000 people or less.
But the rest of the world is usually talking about somewhere with like 50 000 people in it or something.
SSB
I remember learning in elementary school that the population requirement to be a city was 5000, but in Ontario and stuff it's 75 000.
Dave
Serious!?
JK
Holy crap!
That’s huge!
There were definitely some small towns when I was in the UK, but Newton Haven did seem quite large, though not 'developed.'
MR
But the area that they're navigating to go to the different pubs looks fairly small.
JK
Yes, it does. The pub map does illustrate a rather small area.
Dave
Downtown core, with cottages all around.
JK
Actually, most UK towns/cities have a very small, olden-times feel in the downtown. Often called the 'old town ' e.g. Old Canterbury.
MR
Yeah, you're totally right about that, Jeff.
Actually it just occurred to me that this is sort of similar to the way that The X-Files treats rural America i.e. weird shit happens out there.
There aren't as many people around to see it.
JK
Totally true Megan!
MR
Let’s jump into the plot, though.
JK
Cool
MR
Cat thought the plot didn't go anywhere, but I think it just sort of got a little mired in fighting blanks.
I really liked the fight choreography, by the way.
JK
Even throughout all of the fighting, Gary still tried to satisfy his unfinished dream of all 12 pints.
MR
I know, I loved that.
Dave
I think it progressed and was important to telling Gary's story. Even in the face of the invasion, losing friends, and being in mortal danger of being "mulched" he still had to complete the Golden Mile.
JK
I loved how he got pissed off when that blank made him drop his beer!
MR
I think the thing that really encapsulated his character for me was when they get kicked out of the one place without being able to have a drink (because he’s banned for life) and he drinks the ones that people left outside on the patio.
Dave
It really shows how that challenge was all he had. And helped illustrate how his friends fit into his life.
MR
Yes!
JK
I loved that scene Megan!
JK
Is the Golden Mile the course of our lives? Our dreams and ambitions?
MR
The plot definitely wasn't, like, extremely complicated or anything, but I think it's better that it wasn't.
Dave
Yeah, I think it had its story to tell, and it did that effectively.
JK
True, a heavy plot probably would have obfuscated the theme of the movie.
MR
I'm going to reveal my criticism nerdiness right now, but Film Critic Hulk just wrote an excellent article not too long ago about how many blockbusters are way too complicated these days, which I generally agree with so much.
JK
I agree! Any of the latter instalments of the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise is a prime example.
Dave
Yeah, it’s an alien invasion, in the end how much do all the motives and methods of the bad guys really matter to the everyman? They would have been mired down trying to tell that story too.
MR
In this case there could've stood to be more development of the characters besides Gary King, but his character arc (or lack thereof) alone makes the movie worth watching.
Dave
I think that some characters could have been developed more, but didn't really need to be.
MR
I think they might've been able to combine Oliver and Peter or something.
But then they couldn't've had Oliver turned into a blank and Peter get his revenge on his bully.
So maybe not
JK
I am glad that you wrote your article on Apocalypse and Armageddon Dave! Newton Haven was Armageddon and the Apocalypse was the revelation about what makes us human.
Sorry, getting ahead of myself again.
Dave
Haha thanks Jeff.
MR
I'm not good at finding plot holes, but did you see any?
JK
None were obvious to me.
Dave
I think the plot was pretty water tight.
JK
And it probably helped that they didn't have a convoluted plot either!
MR
The only thing I can think of is: do their families still live in the town? What’s going on with them?
JK
Do you mean their parents and siblings, Megan?
MR
Yes.
You'd just think that if they do still have family there, they would have visited them before now.
Dave
I think Oliver might have had parents in town, but since he was the first convert it makes sense that he wasn't worried about them.
And maybe they did, but you generally don't bring your five old friends along to visit your parents.
MR
No, I mean like haven't they been there in previous years to visit? This has been going on for a while.
Dave
Oh right...
MR
I actually don't think it's a big deal or anything, and you can probably explain it away... like they might have only been back for short visits and not noticed anything.
Dave
Yeah, they never really noticed anything until Gary pulled that first kid’s head off.
MR
Yeah, exactly.
JK
You’re right
Dave
So moot point, haha.
Tune in next time for the thrilling conclusion!
Beware, though: absolutely no effort was made to avoid spoilers.
MR
Well let's jump over to the setting
JK
Sure!
MR
Creepy small town? A+
JK
Totally. I wonder if they are any places in Saskatchewan like that.
I thought it was interesting that the town was called Newton Haven. It sounded a lot like "New Haven," an idealized conformist utopia (that turns out to be a dystopia).
MR
I wanted to say it was called "Sleepy Hollow" cuz I couldn't remember the name of it but it certainly implied peacefulness.
MR
I love how this and Hot Fuzz completely lampoon the stereotype of the small town being somewhere where things are perfect.
JK
I liked how Newton Haven had "UK's First Traffic Circle." I wonder if this was intended to be one of the 'improvements' that the blanks had introduced (I wonder if there actually are any traffic circles in England). In the end, Sam actually makes a remark that the traffic circle confused her, an indication again that the 'improvements' introduced by the blanks aren't so great, aren't so 'human.'
MR
Hahaha I forgot that traffic circle joke.
Dave
Good observation Jeff.
I did like that line!
JK
Oh yeah, and Gary tells her to go right through it! Down with conformity!
MR
I have so much trouble figuring out the actual size of towns and stuff in movies.
Because here in SK, when I think small town, I think pop. 2000 people or less.
But the rest of the world is usually talking about somewhere with like 50 000 people in it or something.
SSB
I remember learning in elementary school that the population requirement to be a city was 5000, but in Ontario and stuff it's 75 000.
Dave
Serious!?
JK
Holy crap!
That’s huge!
There were definitely some small towns when I was in the UK, but Newton Haven did seem quite large, though not 'developed.'
MR
But the area that they're navigating to go to the different pubs looks fairly small.
JK
Yes, it does. The pub map does illustrate a rather small area.
Dave
Downtown core, with cottages all around.
JK
Actually, most UK towns/cities have a very small, olden-times feel in the downtown. Often called the 'old town ' e.g. Old Canterbury.
MR
Yeah, you're totally right about that, Jeff.
Actually it just occurred to me that this is sort of similar to the way that The X-Files treats rural America i.e. weird shit happens out there.
There aren't as many people around to see it.
JK
Totally true Megan!
MR
Let’s jump into the plot, though.
JK
Cool
MR
Cat thought the plot didn't go anywhere, but I think it just sort of got a little mired in fighting blanks.
I really liked the fight choreography, by the way.
JK
Even throughout all of the fighting, Gary still tried to satisfy his unfinished dream of all 12 pints.
MR
I know, I loved that.
Dave
I think it progressed and was important to telling Gary's story. Even in the face of the invasion, losing friends, and being in mortal danger of being "mulched" he still had to complete the Golden Mile.
JK
I loved how he got pissed off when that blank made him drop his beer!
MR
I think the thing that really encapsulated his character for me was when they get kicked out of the one place without being able to have a drink (because he’s banned for life) and he drinks the ones that people left outside on the patio.
Dave
It really shows how that challenge was all he had. And helped illustrate how his friends fit into his life.
MR
Yes!
JK
I loved that scene Megan!
JK
Is the Golden Mile the course of our lives? Our dreams and ambitions?
MR
The plot definitely wasn't, like, extremely complicated or anything, but I think it's better that it wasn't.
Dave
Yeah, I think it had its story to tell, and it did that effectively.
JK
True, a heavy plot probably would have obfuscated the theme of the movie.
MR
I'm going to reveal my criticism nerdiness right now, but Film Critic Hulk just wrote an excellent article not too long ago about how many blockbusters are way too complicated these days, which I generally agree with so much.
JK
I agree! Any of the latter instalments of the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise is a prime example.
Dave
Yeah, it’s an alien invasion, in the end how much do all the motives and methods of the bad guys really matter to the everyman? They would have been mired down trying to tell that story too.
MR
In this case there could've stood to be more development of the characters besides Gary King, but his character arc (or lack thereof) alone makes the movie worth watching.
Dave
I think that some characters could have been developed more, but didn't really need to be.
MR
I think they might've been able to combine Oliver and Peter or something.
But then they couldn't've had Oliver turned into a blank and Peter get his revenge on his bully.
So maybe not
JK
I am glad that you wrote your article on Apocalypse and Armageddon Dave! Newton Haven was Armageddon and the Apocalypse was the revelation about what makes us human.
Sorry, getting ahead of myself again.
Dave
Haha thanks Jeff.
MR
I'm not good at finding plot holes, but did you see any?
JK
None were obvious to me.
Dave
I think the plot was pretty water tight.
JK
And it probably helped that they didn't have a convoluted plot either!
MR
The only thing I can think of is: do their families still live in the town? What’s going on with them?
JK
Do you mean their parents and siblings, Megan?
MR
Yes.
You'd just think that if they do still have family there, they would have visited them before now.
Dave
I think Oliver might have had parents in town, but since he was the first convert it makes sense that he wasn't worried about them.
And maybe they did, but you generally don't bring your five old friends along to visit your parents.
MR
No, I mean like haven't they been there in previous years to visit? This has been going on for a while.
Dave
Oh right...
MR
I actually don't think it's a big deal or anything, and you can probably explain it away... like they might have only been back for short visits and not noticed anything.
Dave
Yeah, they never really noticed anything until Gary pulled that first kid’s head off.
MR
Yeah, exactly.
JK
You’re right
Dave
So moot point, haha.
Tune in next time for the thrilling conclusion!
Thursday, September 19, 2013
The World's End Discussion, Part 2
On September 8, Dave, Jeff, and Megan got together to talk about the latest Edgar Wright/Simon Pegg/Nick Frost venture, The World's End, based on some notes from Cat. (So far she hasn't given permission to publish those notes, so for now you'll have to reconstruct them for yourself based on our references to them and deductive reasoning.) This is the second part of that discussion.
Beware, though: absolutely no effort was made to avoid spoilers.
Dave
Characters?
MR
Yessir!
I thought that the Gary King characterization was awesome. They did such a great job of setting him up as someone who would take the trouble to still keep forging ahead and drinking pints in the face of killer robots.
Dave
Yeah, he was well done.
JK
He was certainly a layered character. Like duplex stainless steel.
MR
Someone who is just clinging to his glory days.
Dave
It's all he had.
JK
Interesting how one of the beers was called "Crowning Glory."
Dave
I think they had that at several of the pubs.
JK
I wonder if the character of the flavour of that beer was supposed to mirror the flavour of how they were reliving some of their memories and days together.
Dave
I think you are probably right.
MR
Haha, you guys both have way better memories for details than I do. I barely remember any of the characters' names.
JK
Peter, Andrew, Gary, ... crap can't remember the others.
MR
Oliver!
Dave
Oliver?
JK
Was he the one that chuckled at 'King Gay'?
MR
Oliver was the one with the birthmark.
JK
Oh yeah.
MR
Played by *fans self* Martin Freeman.
Dave
Right.
Then there was Peter, he was the King Gay chuckler.
And Steve the lover of Sam.
JK
Do you think there was some significance with how the 'blanks' were free from the blemishes of their injuries/aging (in reference to the birth mark)?
Perhaps since they were perfect, free of errors, that that made them inhuman, given the 'to err is human' thing.
Dave
Well on the surface it is because they are made from DNA, and aren't shaped by experience as real people are.
JK
Excellent point!
We are more than just our DNA... I love that insight Dave!
MR
I'm not sure about blanks being free from blemishes, but I do think there was some significance to the fact that the "blanks" were the robots, and the "empties" were the people who had been turned into robots, and that those words have very similar meanings.
MR
What did you guys think of Sam, the lone female character with a significant role?
JK
I liked her, I liked how she had matured but hadn't necessarily conformed.
MR
I think I agree with Cat that she wasn't terribly well-handled. She does get to do some ass-kicking and such but I didn't know much about her. In some ways she actually blends in with the "other guys" in terms of her actual personality. Maybe there were just too many characters in the ensemble?
Dave
Yeah she was a little underplayed, but again so were Oliver, Peter, and Steve.
Even Andy was close to minimal.
JK
I loved when his hand went through the door of that one pub!
But you are right, Andy didn't seem to be as developed as he could have been, given the fact that at the beginning Gary makes a point of mentioning their fraternal love.
MR
I thought Andy was quite well done, actually. He's a man who could have gone the same way as Gary, but instead turned his life around and became successful... except that we learn later in the movie that he actually isn't so successful.
JK
... Suggesting again that we're all fuckups...
Interesting point Megan.
Dave
I think all the characters were handled well, but that Gary was the true "main" character.
JK
On that note, Steve was a fuckup because he didn't act on his feeling toward Sam earlier. That was his great regret.
MR
Speaking of that, I wish we had gotten more of the two of them because I didn't really feel any connection to their love story, if you will.
Like, why did they care about each other?
Dave
You see how Sam has grown up from her party girl ways. Peter still has some issues with being bullied, Steve can finally stand up to Gary, etc.
JK
I was wondering if Sam also had regrets because of not capitalizing on the romance that never was.
MR
Ugh, this is why I wish that beginning bit hadn't been so rushed!
I didn't have enough connection to their younger selves to really see the progression.
JK
In fact, I don't think it even registered with me that Steve liked Sam in the old days.
Dave
I think she had regrets too, and you do see that. She tried to reciprocate to Steve when he first tells her, but he interrupts her to keep drunkenly talking. Then later in the dance club they almost have a moment before he gets pulled in by the crazy old man.
JK
Yeah, you're right.
I loved Basil!
And his 'crazy' straw.
Dave
It was fun seeing the Spaced cameos. I didn't see Daisy or Twist in there.
But there was Brian, Marsh, Tires.
When Peter confronts his bully, I thought for a minute that it was actually going to be the guy, and he would be beating up a human.
That would have been funny, but it would have been out of place.
MR
I love how he just runs off crazily after that scene.
Dave
Grabs the stick and keeps hitting him.
JK
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about him possibly being human, Dave. Haha! I loved how he got his revenge!
Thinking back, Oliver was the one that most obviously was connected into modern technology, with his bluetooth device. Perhaps there is some commentary that modern social technology turns us into blanks. Just hazarding a wild ass guess.
Dave
Jeff I think there was definitely an undertone of that... and an overtone, as the network tells us that they have increased connectivity across the world. And at the end Andy talks about how life is simpler after the lights went out.
MR
You could be right, Jeff. I don't know when you guys noticed that Oliver had been turned into a blank, but I definitely didn't notice right away.
Dave
I had suspicions pretty quickly. He was too calm and happy.
MR
At least the characters took more time to notice than I did.
But it was also partly just that Oliver maybe had the most conformist personality?
JK
That's true. He didn't seem to have any regrets like the others did.
Any fuckups per se.
Dave
Yeah he just seemed very okay with everything, and was being a very good enabler for them all. And before he was the one they had to drag along.
Tune in next time for more thrilling discussion on... the setting and plot!
Beware, though: absolutely no effort was made to avoid spoilers.
Dave
Characters?
MR
Yessir!
I thought that the Gary King characterization was awesome. They did such a great job of setting him up as someone who would take the trouble to still keep forging ahead and drinking pints in the face of killer robots.
Dave
Yeah, he was well done.
JK
He was certainly a layered character. Like duplex stainless steel.
MR
Someone who is just clinging to his glory days.
Dave
It's all he had.
JK
Interesting how one of the beers was called "Crowning Glory."
Dave
I think they had that at several of the pubs.
JK
I wonder if the character of the flavour of that beer was supposed to mirror the flavour of how they were reliving some of their memories and days together.
Dave
I think you are probably right.
MR
Haha, you guys both have way better memories for details than I do. I barely remember any of the characters' names.
JK
Peter, Andrew, Gary, ... crap can't remember the others.
MR
Oliver!
Dave
Oliver?
JK
Was he the one that chuckled at 'King Gay'?
MR
Oliver was the one with the birthmark.
JK
Oh yeah.
MR
Played by *fans self* Martin Freeman.
Dave
Right.
Then there was Peter, he was the King Gay chuckler.
And Steve the lover of Sam.
JK
Do you think there was some significance with how the 'blanks' were free from the blemishes of their injuries/aging (in reference to the birth mark)?
Perhaps since they were perfect, free of errors, that that made them inhuman, given the 'to err is human' thing.
Dave
Well on the surface it is because they are made from DNA, and aren't shaped by experience as real people are.
JK
Excellent point!
We are more than just our DNA... I love that insight Dave!
MR
I'm not sure about blanks being free from blemishes, but I do think there was some significance to the fact that the "blanks" were the robots, and the "empties" were the people who had been turned into robots, and that those words have very similar meanings.
MR
What did you guys think of Sam, the lone female character with a significant role?
JK
I liked her, I liked how she had matured but hadn't necessarily conformed.
MR
I think I agree with Cat that she wasn't terribly well-handled. She does get to do some ass-kicking and such but I didn't know much about her. In some ways she actually blends in with the "other guys" in terms of her actual personality. Maybe there were just too many characters in the ensemble?
Dave
Yeah she was a little underplayed, but again so were Oliver, Peter, and Steve.
Even Andy was close to minimal.
JK
I loved when his hand went through the door of that one pub!
But you are right, Andy didn't seem to be as developed as he could have been, given the fact that at the beginning Gary makes a point of mentioning their fraternal love.
MR
I thought Andy was quite well done, actually. He's a man who could have gone the same way as Gary, but instead turned his life around and became successful... except that we learn later in the movie that he actually isn't so successful.
JK
... Suggesting again that we're all fuckups...
Interesting point Megan.
Dave
I think all the characters were handled well, but that Gary was the true "main" character.
JK
On that note, Steve was a fuckup because he didn't act on his feeling toward Sam earlier. That was his great regret.
MR
Speaking of that, I wish we had gotten more of the two of them because I didn't really feel any connection to their love story, if you will.
Like, why did they care about each other?
Dave
You see how Sam has grown up from her party girl ways. Peter still has some issues with being bullied, Steve can finally stand up to Gary, etc.
JK
I was wondering if Sam also had regrets because of not capitalizing on the romance that never was.
MR
Ugh, this is why I wish that beginning bit hadn't been so rushed!
I didn't have enough connection to their younger selves to really see the progression.
JK
In fact, I don't think it even registered with me that Steve liked Sam in the old days.
Dave
I think she had regrets too, and you do see that. She tried to reciprocate to Steve when he first tells her, but he interrupts her to keep drunkenly talking. Then later in the dance club they almost have a moment before he gets pulled in by the crazy old man.
JK
Yeah, you're right.
I loved Basil!
And his 'crazy' straw.
Dave
It was fun seeing the Spaced cameos. I didn't see Daisy or Twist in there.
But there was Brian, Marsh, Tires.
When Peter confronts his bully, I thought for a minute that it was actually going to be the guy, and he would be beating up a human.
That would have been funny, but it would have been out of place.
MR
I love how he just runs off crazily after that scene.
Dave
Grabs the stick and keeps hitting him.
JK
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about him possibly being human, Dave. Haha! I loved how he got his revenge!
Thinking back, Oliver was the one that most obviously was connected into modern technology, with his bluetooth device. Perhaps there is some commentary that modern social technology turns us into blanks. Just hazarding a wild ass guess.
Dave
Jeff I think there was definitely an undertone of that... and an overtone, as the network tells us that they have increased connectivity across the world. And at the end Andy talks about how life is simpler after the lights went out.
MR
You could be right, Jeff. I don't know when you guys noticed that Oliver had been turned into a blank, but I definitely didn't notice right away.
Dave
I had suspicions pretty quickly. He was too calm and happy.
MR
At least the characters took more time to notice than I did.
But it was also partly just that Oliver maybe had the most conformist personality?
JK
That's true. He didn't seem to have any regrets like the others did.
Any fuckups per se.
Dave
Yeah he just seemed very okay with everything, and was being a very good enabler for them all. And before he was the one they had to drag along.
Tune in next time for more thrilling discussion on... the setting and plot!
Tuesday, September 17, 2013
The World's End Discussion, Part 1
On September 8, Dave, Jeff, and Megan got together to talk about the latest Edgar Wright/Simon Pegg/Nick Frost venture, The World's End, based on some notes from Cat. (So far she hasn't given permission to publish those notes, so for now you'll have to reconstruct them for yourself based on our references to them and deductive reasoning.) The discussion itself will be posted over the next few days.
Beware, though: absolutely no effort was made to avoid spoilers.
MR
Ok, so should we just jump right in?
First of all, have we all seen the movie, and what are everyone's basic opinions? E.g. did you enjoy it and so on?
JK
I had no idea what it was about going into it - I didn't see any trailers or read about it ahead of time. I was pleasantly surprised.
Dave
I saw the movie yesterday afternoon. I went by myself in between a wedding and a reception. I knew the basic premise, but stayed away from other spoilers. And I really liked it.
MR
I also went to see the movie alone between other stuff, a week or two ago or something. I really enjoyed it a lot.
Jeff, have you seen any of the other Wright/Pegg/Frost movies? Hot Fuzz or Shaun of the Dead? Or the TV show Spaced?
JK
I have seen all of them except Spaced.
Dave
Spaced is incredible. I watch the series once a year!
MR
I've only seen a few episodes of Spaced so far when my sister and I started watching it as a way to feel less angry after episodes of Breaking Bad. I don't think I'm really into it yet.
And I've seen the other two Cornetto movies. But I actually just rewatched Shaun of the Dead because I couldn't remember anything about it.
Dave
Well good to hear that we all had positive experiences with the movie!
JK
I overheard someone at work talking about some 'end of the world' movie that they thought was terrible - "they just hang out in the mall and talk; they do nothing at all to save the world." I was relieved that they must have been talking about something else.
Cornetto?
MR
"Cornetto Trilogy" is what they call the movies that Wright/Pegg/Frost make together, i.e. this one and Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. I don't exactly know why.
Dave
Oh, I did not know that name.
MR
I do know that apparently the Cornetto ice cream treat shows up in all three movies.
Dave
Ah yes, it does.
JK
Now I remember seeing the wrapper at the end of the movie.
Dave
And in Shaun of the Dead he buys an ice cream before slipping on some blood.
MR
Oh yeah!
Dave
And in Hot Fuzz they buy it from the shop and get a brain freeze.
MR
Ok, let’s just run through some of the points Cat made.
She found the pacing of movie a bit slow at the beginning.
Did you guys think so?
I actually found the initial montage of their first attempt to do the Golden Mile (was that what it was called?) a bit too fast.
I wasn't really clear on who the three “other guys” were, and it just flew by.
And then it does seem to slow down to actually get them back to the town.
JK
It did seem like a rushed backstory to me.
But that may have been in keeping with the spontaneous character of Gary King (that is, the way his mind works).
MR
I still couldn't figure out which guy was which for a long time.
Side note: casting of the young Nick Frost actor was right on.
Dave
I guess I agree that it was slow, but not in a detrimental way. At that point in the film it was telling a different story. It was about the old days and trying to relive them. I think it worked well with the story it was telling at that point.
MR
Yeah, I don't think I found the pacing a problem aside from the rushing at the very beginning.
Dave
Also I think the editing was well done. I know Edgar Wright has a very fast cut style, but his cuts always serve a purpose. During the intro there aren't a lot of reasons for these domesticated adults to have the jump cuts. The bit with the beer and water was a nice little touch.
MR
I loooved that.
Dave
And I think it would have lost its appeal, if there were jump cuts everywhere.
MR
Yeah, I wasn't ever bored or wishing to move on at any point.
Dave
No I rather enjoyed it, and think that it could have been an excellent movie if it continued without any of the invasion stuff.
I think they did a good job of portraying a group of old friends getting back together; playing on old jokes and stereotypes, while seeing how they have grown up and evolved (except Gary).
MR
Wow, I wouldn't have thought of that, but you're totally right. It obviously would've been a much different movie, and probably waaay darker. I also thought the depiction of the dynamics between old friends who don't see each other often was right on. But just that alone could have gone right through and been entertaining to watch. They actually do still manage to hit some of the same beats, but obviously it's set aside for the robot storyline. Although I really would have liked the three "other guys" to be more fleshed out.
JK
It's funny, I had a totally different encounter with a group of old friends last Labour Day weekend. I thought we would relive the glory days of high school but instead I realized that I didn't actually like most of them.
It was really weird to find out most of my oldest friends were fluff friends.
Dave
Jeff, I know what you mean. Not from a similar experience per se, but just looking back on my past and realizing that I don't quite have a group like that.
Never had a close core group of buds.
JK
I would consider our group of friends to be closer to the film's group dynamic compared to my high school friends.
Dave
Yes I agree, we all found each other at a later stage in life.
MR
Re: old friends, a lot of it is just growing apart. Your friends in school have a lot in common with you in terms of what you all do together all day, responsibilities, etc., but adults have such varying lives. Even people that you work every day with can have totally different things going on in their personal lives.
JK
Any thoughts on how the end of the world played into the 'aging' theme of the rest of the film?
Something to do with our fragility?
I liked the association between these two facets but I haven't been able to place my finger on exactly why.
MR
Ooh, I like that.
Dave
I didn't quite see it as our fragility but more of a conformity thing. Grow up, be the same as everyone else, there is no conflict in uniformity. And Gary is the complete opposite. And he is trying to break his friends out of that existence. You see it in the set pieces too, with the first few pubs being "Starbucked" to be the same, and generic.
JK
I totally agree with that - very insightful.
MR
But Gary's not really presented as being correct. One of my favourite things about the ending is the way it subverts a lot of the tropes of this type of story. Usually the humans would tell off the all-powerful beings, convince them we're singular, and then the all-powerful beings would leave and everyone would live happily ever after.
In this case, we get totally effed. I also like how the argument for why humans are special here boils down to "we're fuckups."
Dave
I really liked the ending
JK
I loved that!
Dave
A traditional happy ending would be less awesome.
JK
Yes, our 'human condition' is to err.
Dave
So... errr.
JK
By that logic, Gary was the most human of them all. Interesting.
MR
We shouldn't skip ahead to the ending too much yet, though!
Dave
Agreed.
JK
Indeed.
Tune in next time for more thrilling discussion on... characters!
Beware, though: absolutely no effort was made to avoid spoilers.
MR
Ok, so should we just jump right in?
First of all, have we all seen the movie, and what are everyone's basic opinions? E.g. did you enjoy it and so on?
JK
I had no idea what it was about going into it - I didn't see any trailers or read about it ahead of time. I was pleasantly surprised.
Dave
I saw the movie yesterday afternoon. I went by myself in between a wedding and a reception. I knew the basic premise, but stayed away from other spoilers. And I really liked it.
MR
I also went to see the movie alone between other stuff, a week or two ago or something. I really enjoyed it a lot.
Jeff, have you seen any of the other Wright/Pegg/Frost movies? Hot Fuzz or Shaun of the Dead? Or the TV show Spaced?
JK
I have seen all of them except Spaced.
Dave
Spaced is incredible. I watch the series once a year!
MR
I've only seen a few episodes of Spaced so far when my sister and I started watching it as a way to feel less angry after episodes of Breaking Bad. I don't think I'm really into it yet.
And I've seen the other two Cornetto movies. But I actually just rewatched Shaun of the Dead because I couldn't remember anything about it.
Dave
Well good to hear that we all had positive experiences with the movie!
JK
I overheard someone at work talking about some 'end of the world' movie that they thought was terrible - "they just hang out in the mall and talk; they do nothing at all to save the world." I was relieved that they must have been talking about something else.
Cornetto?
MR
"Cornetto Trilogy" is what they call the movies that Wright/Pegg/Frost make together, i.e. this one and Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. I don't exactly know why.
Dave
Oh, I did not know that name.
MR
I do know that apparently the Cornetto ice cream treat shows up in all three movies.
Dave
Ah yes, it does.
JK
Now I remember seeing the wrapper at the end of the movie.
Dave
And in Shaun of the Dead he buys an ice cream before slipping on some blood.
MR
Oh yeah!
Dave
And in Hot Fuzz they buy it from the shop and get a brain freeze.
MR
Ok, let’s just run through some of the points Cat made.
She found the pacing of movie a bit slow at the beginning.
Did you guys think so?
I actually found the initial montage of their first attempt to do the Golden Mile (was that what it was called?) a bit too fast.
I wasn't really clear on who the three “other guys” were, and it just flew by.
And then it does seem to slow down to actually get them back to the town.
JK
It did seem like a rushed backstory to me.
But that may have been in keeping with the spontaneous character of Gary King (that is, the way his mind works).
MR
I still couldn't figure out which guy was which for a long time.
Side note: casting of the young Nick Frost actor was right on.
Dave
I guess I agree that it was slow, but not in a detrimental way. At that point in the film it was telling a different story. It was about the old days and trying to relive them. I think it worked well with the story it was telling at that point.
MR
Yeah, I don't think I found the pacing a problem aside from the rushing at the very beginning.
Dave
Also I think the editing was well done. I know Edgar Wright has a very fast cut style, but his cuts always serve a purpose. During the intro there aren't a lot of reasons for these domesticated adults to have the jump cuts. The bit with the beer and water was a nice little touch.
MR
I loooved that.
Dave
And I think it would have lost its appeal, if there were jump cuts everywhere.
MR
Yeah, I wasn't ever bored or wishing to move on at any point.
Dave
No I rather enjoyed it, and think that it could have been an excellent movie if it continued without any of the invasion stuff.
I think they did a good job of portraying a group of old friends getting back together; playing on old jokes and stereotypes, while seeing how they have grown up and evolved (except Gary).
MR
Wow, I wouldn't have thought of that, but you're totally right. It obviously would've been a much different movie, and probably waaay darker. I also thought the depiction of the dynamics between old friends who don't see each other often was right on. But just that alone could have gone right through and been entertaining to watch. They actually do still manage to hit some of the same beats, but obviously it's set aside for the robot storyline. Although I really would have liked the three "other guys" to be more fleshed out.
JK
It's funny, I had a totally different encounter with a group of old friends last Labour Day weekend. I thought we would relive the glory days of high school but instead I realized that I didn't actually like most of them.
It was really weird to find out most of my oldest friends were fluff friends.
Dave
Jeff, I know what you mean. Not from a similar experience per se, but just looking back on my past and realizing that I don't quite have a group like that.
Never had a close core group of buds.
JK
I would consider our group of friends to be closer to the film's group dynamic compared to my high school friends.
Dave
Yes I agree, we all found each other at a later stage in life.
MR
Re: old friends, a lot of it is just growing apart. Your friends in school have a lot in common with you in terms of what you all do together all day, responsibilities, etc., but adults have such varying lives. Even people that you work every day with can have totally different things going on in their personal lives.
JK
Any thoughts on how the end of the world played into the 'aging' theme of the rest of the film?
Something to do with our fragility?
I liked the association between these two facets but I haven't been able to place my finger on exactly why.
MR
Ooh, I like that.
Dave
I didn't quite see it as our fragility but more of a conformity thing. Grow up, be the same as everyone else, there is no conflict in uniformity. And Gary is the complete opposite. And he is trying to break his friends out of that existence. You see it in the set pieces too, with the first few pubs being "Starbucked" to be the same, and generic.
JK
I totally agree with that - very insightful.
MR
But Gary's not really presented as being correct. One of my favourite things about the ending is the way it subverts a lot of the tropes of this type of story. Usually the humans would tell off the all-powerful beings, convince them we're singular, and then the all-powerful beings would leave and everyone would live happily ever after.
In this case, we get totally effed. I also like how the argument for why humans are special here boils down to "we're fuckups."
Dave
I really liked the ending
JK
I loved that!
Dave
A traditional happy ending would be less awesome.
JK
Yes, our 'human condition' is to err.
Dave
So... errr.
JK
By that logic, Gary was the most human of them all. Interesting.
MR
We shouldn't skip ahead to the ending too much yet, though!
Dave
Agreed.
JK
Indeed.
Tune in next time for more thrilling discussion on... characters!
Saturday, September 7, 2013
Apocalypse - The Misunderstood Cousin of Armageddon
I remember learning about the origins of the word Apocalypse years ago, and was recently reminded about it on a radio program on CBC 1. Apocalypse gets a bad wrap. It has garnered a bad reputation by being associated with much darker events.
The word apocalypse originates in Greek, with a literal translation of "to uncover" or "to reveal". So it begins its life as innocent, and even hopeful. To uncover facts and reveal truths, are inherent to learning about the world around us and expanding our knowledge. So far Apocalypse seems like a pretty awesome character. But, "to reveal" can also be called a revelation; and long ago someone wrote a book about revelation, and called it Revelation, and put it in the Bible.
This book of Revelation turned out to be a chronicle of the end of days. It describes the eternal battle between good and evil, Heaven and Hell, Judgement Day, The Seven Seals, The Four Horseman, the cleansing of the earth, and its inheritance by the chosen. Most of these themes are pretty dark, and have become associated with apocalypse, and the end of days.
So the moral of this story is that at its core apocalypse is an act of revelation, of uncovering new truths. And not all revelations are bad, I would argue that most are in fact good, and many are freaking awesome! So maybe the Apocalypse is something to be celebrated, rather than feared. Unless it's a zombie apocalypse... that would still suck.
PS - with a little further research, it turns out Armageddon gets a bit of a bad wrap too. Armageddon is a location where the final battle between Heaven and Hell takes place. Totally not Armageddon's fault. Armageddon was just there, being a location, and then Heaven and Hell decided to duke it out on the front lawn. Now Armageddon also gets to be associated with the end of days.
The word apocalypse originates in Greek, with a literal translation of "to uncover" or "to reveal". So it begins its life as innocent, and even hopeful. To uncover facts and reveal truths, are inherent to learning about the world around us and expanding our knowledge. So far Apocalypse seems like a pretty awesome character. But, "to reveal" can also be called a revelation; and long ago someone wrote a book about revelation, and called it Revelation, and put it in the Bible.
This book of Revelation turned out to be a chronicle of the end of days. It describes the eternal battle between good and evil, Heaven and Hell, Judgement Day, The Seven Seals, The Four Horseman, the cleansing of the earth, and its inheritance by the chosen. Most of these themes are pretty dark, and have become associated with apocalypse, and the end of days.
So the moral of this story is that at its core apocalypse is an act of revelation, of uncovering new truths. And not all revelations are bad, I would argue that most are in fact good, and many are freaking awesome! So maybe the Apocalypse is something to be celebrated, rather than feared. Unless it's a zombie apocalypse... that would still suck.
PS - with a little further research, it turns out Armageddon gets a bit of a bad wrap too. Armageddon is a location where the final battle between Heaven and Hell takes place. Totally not Armageddon's fault. Armageddon was just there, being a location, and then Heaven and Hell decided to duke it out on the front lawn. Now Armageddon also gets to be associated with the end of days.
Sunday, September 1, 2013
September Topic!
It's September!
As I mentioned last month, I didn't have the energy to create a new poll for this month's topic.
Instead, I'm just picking the topic for this month, which is... THE APOCALYPSE.
This topic is mainly inspired by the fact that we'll be getting together early in the month to review The World's End together, which will be posted on the blog. I haven't seen the movie yet and I know that it involves a pub crawl but not necessarily the literal end of the world, so the topic might be unrelated, but whatever.
Contributors: this topic any way you want, and you can write as many posts about it as you want (within reason, obviously, not like 200 posts over the course of the month, but I don't think any of us have that kind of time on our hands). When you write your post, make sure you tag it with the topic and your name/blog identifier, so that if any potential readers like you and hate the rest of us, they can find your posts easily.
Everyone: There is a poll in the sidebar (not visible on the mobile site) with new topic options, as well as an "Other" category in case none of the topics in that list appeal to you. You can vote until a minute before midnight Saskatchewan time on the 25th of this month. Whichever topic gets the most votes gets written about next month.
Comment on this post or the topic ideas post if there's anything you'd like to see added to the poll. As far as I'm concerned, any topic is fair game, so suggest away!
As I mentioned last month, I didn't have the energy to create a new poll for this month's topic.
Instead, I'm just picking the topic for this month, which is... THE APOCALYPSE.
This topic is mainly inspired by the fact that we'll be getting together early in the month to review The World's End together, which will be posted on the blog. I haven't seen the movie yet and I know that it involves a pub crawl but not necessarily the literal end of the world, so the topic might be unrelated, but whatever.
Contributors: this topic any way you want, and you can write as many posts about it as you want (within reason, obviously, not like 200 posts over the course of the month, but I don't think any of us have that kind of time on our hands). When you write your post, make sure you tag it with the topic and your name/blog identifier, so that if any potential readers like you and hate the rest of us, they can find your posts easily.
Everyone: There is a poll in the sidebar (not visible on the mobile site) with new topic options, as well as an "Other" category in case none of the topics in that list appeal to you. You can vote until a minute before midnight Saskatchewan time on the 25th of this month. Whichever topic gets the most votes gets written about next month.
Comment on this post or the topic ideas post if there's anything you'd like to see added to the poll. As far as I'm concerned, any topic is fair game, so suggest away!
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